Go Back   DFW Auto Club Forums > DFW Auto Club Lifestyle > DFWAC Shooting Range
DFWAC Shooting Range Guns, Sport and Personal Protection
Please support our sponsor: Radar-Mirror.com
Please support our sponsor: RBC Wealth Management

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-11-2012, 05:57 PM   #41
BlackBird007
DFWAC Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Burleson
Posts: 645
Thanks: 67
Thanked 54 Times in 39 Posts
BlackBird007 is on a distinguished road
Default

Reports from somebody close to the case are surfacing that Zimmerman will be charged. Press conference will be held any minute.

EDIT-Second degree murder. Zimmerman has turned himself in.
__________________
'01 S60 2.4

Last edited by BlackBird007; 04-11-2012 at 06:06 PM.
BlackBird007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 06:11 PM   #42
GBL1
DFWAC Member
 
GBL1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 233
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts
GBL1 is on a distinguished road
Default

I hope the facts are correct for whatever they do...& this isn't something being done due to pressure from 'civil rights leaders'...

...just where were those clowns when those two guys in Oklahoma got arrested the other day for basically going out 'hunting black people' (killed five)!??
__________________
.

George

"Life is not a test drive. Drive fast, take chances."

.

.
GBL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 10:43 AM   #43
CIWS
Moon Parasite
 
CIWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: D/FW
Posts: 3,135
Thanks: 516
Thanked 436 Times in 323 Posts
CIWS is on a distinguished road
Default

With them bringing a 2nd degree murder charge, they're going to have a higher bar to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. In a state with a law like "Stand your Ground" and no independent witnesses (as far as we know) to counter Mr. Zimmerman's story, that might be tough to prove BRD.

Of course there are those who think that was the intent behind filing 2nd degree murder vs manslaughter, harder to get a conviction.
__________________


2015 335i MSport - MPPK, Borla ATAK exhaust, E.R. charge pipe.

2013 X1 35i Sport - 2009 X6 50i -2006 STS-V -2005 CTS-V
CIWS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 01:31 PM   #44
GBL1
DFWAC Member
 
GBL1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 233
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts
GBL1 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
With them bringing a 2nd degree murder charge, they're going to have a higher bar to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. In a state with a law like "Stand your Ground" and no independent witnesses (as far as we know) to counter Mr. Zimmerman's story, that might be tough to prove BRD.

Of course there are those who think that was the intent behind filing 2nd degree murder vs manslaughter, harder to get a conviction.

So by doing this, they appease the public out-cry for "justice" from the "civil liberties" leaders (professional whiners) and prevent another Rodney King incident (it was almost to the boiling point of going in that direction...), and in the end, (presumably) "justice" gets served in the form of a (again...presumably) innocent man getting freed...as he should be...if he really is innocent.

If they already feel that he did not commit what they are actually charging him with, then why waste all the tax-payer money...oh, yeah, to appease those screaming for his blood.

What a train wreck....

.
__________________
.

George

"Life is not a test drive. Drive fast, take chances."

.

.
GBL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 11:44 PM   #45
Rams
Everything feels slow.
 
Rams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 612
Thanks: 57
Thanked 28 Times in 24 Posts
Rams is on a distinguished road
Default

where were all the protests backing zimmerman you ask? Those people actually have jobs...
Rams is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rams For This Useful Post:
Silentrun (04-13-2012)
Old 04-13-2012, 08:52 AM   #46
Airbag79
DFWAC Senior Member
 
Airbag79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 816
Thanks: 92
Thanked 42 Times in 32 Posts
Airbag79 is on a distinguished road
Default

Unless there is a smoking gun the public is not aware of, I don't see how they are going to prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was 2nd degree murder. Especially with his family juiced into the justice system. Just another high visibility incident receving reactionary charges.

You can bet he if he does walk free it will be like the LA riots part 2.
Airbag79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 10:41 AM   #47
CIWS
Moon Parasite
 
CIWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: D/FW
Posts: 3,135
Thanks: 516
Thanked 436 Times in 323 Posts
CIWS is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBL1 View Post
If they already feel that he did not commit what they are actually charging him with, then why waste all the tax-payer money...oh, yeah, to appease those screaming for his blood.

What a train wreck....

.

Think of the costs involved if there's a riot and looting. How much spent on a run through the legal justice system vs riot damages.
__________________


2015 335i MSport - MPPK, Borla ATAK exhaust, E.R. charge pipe.

2013 X1 35i Sport - 2009 X6 50i -2006 STS-V -2005 CTS-V
CIWS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 03:17 PM   #48
Mbintx
DFWAC Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Plano
Posts: 438
Thanks: 3
Thanked 29 Times in 26 Posts
Mbintx is on a distinguished road
Default

Ultimately it's the "Stand your Ground" law that is going on trial here.
Mbintx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #49
SAFE4NOW
DFWAC Sponsor
 
SAFE4NOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,940
Thanks: 645
Thanked 368 Times in 204 Posts
SAFE4NOW is on a distinguished road
Post Insight to the Bond Hearing

There are several links in the article below, you can follow the link to the story below:

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/mai...l-hearing.html


« ABC Has New Photo Of Bloodied Zimmerman | Main | Zimmerman Bond Hearing - Media Reaction »

April 20, 2012


The George Zimmerman Bail Hearingou



Wow - some days chicken salad and some days Florida state prosecutor.

George Zimmerman will be released on bail, set at $150,000. The prosecution had asked for $1 million, the defense for $15,000.

CNN has 1, 2, 3 transcripts. Here is the CNN live blog and the Guardian live blog. The single most interesting blog point I have seen made is here; I discuss it below, but you won't see me spoiling the surprise up here.

This was a ghastly opening day for Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, who seemed unprepared and admitted as much:

"Mr. Gilbreath, I didn't know we were going to be trying the case, I'm going to add up -- I apologize."

Hello! Maybe the prosecutor should have prepped himself by reading up on 'Arthur' hearings:

Jeff Weiner, a former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers who practices in Miami, said Zimmerman was not necessarily entitled to release on bail. He faces up to life in prison for second-degree murder, a crime for which suspects in Florida are not usually afforded bail.

But if Angela Corey, the special prosecutor assigned to the case, wants to oppose his release, she will have to preview at least some of the evidence the state has against Zimmerman in proceedings known in Florida as an Arthur hearing, Weiner said.

“The state has the burden of proof to go forward and convince the judge that proof of guilt is evident and that the presumption of guilt is great … That’s what this hearing is about,” Weiner said.

Well, maybe the prosecution got the wrong instructional video.

It's hard to pick the lowest of the low, but the darker moments for the prosecution included:

- The admission by co-lead investigator that he had not personally interviewed George Zimmerman;

- the admission that he had not requested Zimmerman's medical records from the hospital;

- the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that, following the advice of the police dispatcher, he headed back to his car;

- the admission that the state has no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin assaulted first.

- the admission that the investigtors have not been "given any insight" by the voice experts at the Orlando Sentinel and the FBI who attempted to identify the screams on the 911 tape (My 'told you so' moment).

Among the rays of light for the prosection was this:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [de la Rionda]: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands?

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true?

GILBREATH: Yes.

So the beating may not have been as fierce as Zimmerman described, or believed. However, the defense returned to this point, regrettably during a CNN break:

COSTELLO: Back live to the bond hearing in Sanford, Florida. Mark O'Mara, who is George Zimmerman's attorney is doing another redirect of the state's attorney investigator. They're talking about what injuries George Zimmerman had to his head that night. Let's listen.

GILBREATH: Managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found.

O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they? [ABC pic]

Dale; The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

O'MARA: Could that be cement?

GILBREATH: Could be.

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent?

GILBREATH: I said it was.

Not a bad cross. The fact that some evidence points against Zimmerman's story does not mean that there is no evidence supporting it, as Mr. O'Mara demonstrated.

The prosecutor did offer this for a future "Great Moments In Cross Examination" video. The tpic was Zimmerman's belated apology to the Martin's parents:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you wait so long to tell Mr. Martin and the victim's mother, the father and mother, why did you wait so long to tell them?

ZIMMERMAN: I was told not to communicate with them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. So even through your attorney, you didn't ask to do it right away? Your former attorneys or anything.

ZIMMERMAN: I did ask them to express that to them. And they said that they were going to.

Anybody can have a bad day.

NEVER BEEN IN A WEIGHT ROOM: Timothy Noah make a possibly embarrassing admission about his own life style choices:

2.) Zimmerman "did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am." This would appear to suggest that Zimmerman wouldn't have fired the gun had he known Martin was 17. He fired the gun believing Martin was perhaps 25 or 26 (Zimmerman is 28.). The assumption, I guess, is that a 25 year-old is stronger or likelier to be carrying a gun or in some other way more potentially dangerous than a 17 year-old. There's no reason I'm aware of to believe that should be so. Zimmerman thereby confirms that he's a guy who leaps to conclusions.

I need help here - is there any sport where 17 year old males have an edge over older, stronger, more experienced 25 year olds? Riding, maybe? I'm stumped. (Yes, it's different for the young women, especially in gymnastics where puberty can be killer. For guys, puberty is muscle-up time... geez, am I explaining the birds and the bees to TNR writers?)

In any case, if Martin's age is irrelevant, why is he referred to as a child all the time? In the court of public opinion, his age matters, and if Mr. Noah thinks that apology was addressed exclusively to the people inside the courtroom, well, my goodness.

I will say his third point is a good one - Zimmerman's admission that he "did not know if [Martin] was armed or not" was not helpful to the defense. It's probably not that harmful, however - Zimmerman claims that Martin grabbed for Zimmerman's gun, causing him to fear death or grievous bodily harm.

In any case Zimmerman must have covered this ground in his repeated interviews with investigators, and what else could Zimmerman say - after the fact, what basis could he have had for saying he believed that Martin had been armed? That would be less plausible than his gun struggle claim (which I don't love - as a concealed carry permit holder, Zimmerman ought to know self-defense law and what to tell police.)

GOOD POINT: Assessments change, but on the 911 call Zimmerman described Martin as "late teens", yet he was older on the stand today. Why the change? Who knows? Maybe Martin had a deeper voice than Zimmerman associated with teens and aged him after he heard him speak just before their scuffle. Maybe Martin was stronger or fiercer than Zimmerman thought a teenager ought to be. Maybe he lied on the stand.

Well - the left will hang their hate on this, so props to Prof. Hutchinson, where I saw it first.

LOOKING FOR REACTIONS: Jeralyn Merritt has not chimed on with her thoughts (this whole day job thing interferes with so much punditry...) but her first commenter deserves a prize:

It appears the prosecution's legal strategy is... (wait for it)... The Sneering Tone of Voice.

Other than that I can't really see what he accomplished except to indicate to the judge he's a jerk.

Well, and unprepared.

The WaPo leads with the apology (as does everyone) and has this deep:

The hearing provided a few glimpses into the evidence amassed by investigators, and in some cases evidence they do not have.

Dale Gilbreath, an investigator for the state attorney’s office, testified that he does not know whether Martin or Zimmerman threw the first punch and that there is no evidence to disprove Zimmerman’s contention that he was walking back to his vehicle when confronted by Martin.

Gilbreath also said evidence does not back up parts of Zimmerman’s story, such as his claim that Martin was slamming his head against a sidewalk just before he pulled out his handgun and shot the teenager.

“That is not consistent with the evidence we found,” said Gilbreath, who did not provide details.

The NY Times makes no mention of the comical prosecution presentation. Better their readers get that grim news elsewhere. [OK, their unmarked updating has now added a section of the prosecution debacle.]

The LA Times has a bit of the bad news deep:

The hearing was also notable for the extensive grilling that O'Mara gave one of the investigators for the state attorney's office, Dale Gilbreath, who helped prepare the probable cause affidavit that was the basis for Zimmerman's arrest.

The affidavit says Zimmerman "confronted" Martin, after which a struggle ensued. In a likely preview of the defense strategy at trial, O'Mara questioned the use of the word "confronted."

"Do you know who started the fight?" he asked the investigator at one point.

"Do I know? No," Gilbreath said.

"Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?"

"No" Gilbreath said.

YOU KNOW IT WENT BADLY FROM THE HEADLINE: ThinkProgress:

Prosecutor: Zimmerman Allegedly Slapped His Ex-Girlfriend And ‘Asked Her How It Felt’

They left out "Defense Counsel Slaps Prosecutor, Asked Him How It Felt"

The judge was far less impressed that Think Progress by Zimmerman's inglorious past; fro the Guardian live blog:

The judge all but pooh-poohed the 2005 charges brought against Zimmerman for felony battery of an officer and resisting arrest. The charges were later reduced to a misdemeanor and Zimmerman never served prison time, although he was required to attend anger management classes.

This kind of thing is all too common, the judge said, suggested that the charges were somehow inflated and should not be taken as an indicator – that he, at least, would not be taking them as an indicator – of George Zimmerman's propensity for violence.

Well, the prosecutor impressed the stalwarts on the left, so he has that working for him. Too bad about the judge...

WHO KNOWS WHAT EVIL LURKS IN THE RETREAT AT TWIN LAKES? More hints of the dazzling prosecution case to come:

Now O'Mara is asking Gilbreath questions again. He's driving at how long after the operator told Zimmerman not to follow Martin that the suspect "continued to follow" the scene.

Gilbreath: "We have a witness statement who observed shadows or figures running by her residence." He says he can't identify who they were.

I'm betting one of the shadows was black, but did the other shadow look Hispanic or White Hispanic?

(FWIW, I can't find that in the CNN transcript, but they did keep cutting away for revenue breaks.)

ALWAYS WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT: A comedy highlight - defense counsel O'Mara has co-lead investigator Gilbrath on the stand:

O'MARA: Ok. Have you ever had your nose broken?

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Have you ever had your nose fractured or broken.

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: You know that that was an injury that Mr. Zimmerman sustained, correct?

GILBREATH: I know that that is an injury that is reported to have sustained. I haven't seen any medical records to indicate that.

O'MARA: Have you asked him for them?

GILBREATH: Have I asked him for them? No.

O'MARA: Do you want a copy of them?

GILBREATH: Sure.

O'MARA: I'll give them to the state. It's a more appropriate way to do it. If you haven't had them yet, I don't want to cross you on them.

Send better rodeo clowns.

YOU KNOW THAT'S RIGHT: From the conclusion of the prosecutor's closing statement:

I'm not here to argue all the facts, obviously.

Obvious as the day is long.
__________________
"You have first to experience
what you want to express" (V. Van Gogh)
SAFE4NOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 11:19 PM   #50
SAFE4NOW
DFWAC Sponsor
 
SAFE4NOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,940
Thanks: 645
Thanked 368 Times in 204 Posts
SAFE4NOW is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

In case you haven't heard:

NOT Guilty

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...rayvon-martin/
__________________
"You have first to experience
what you want to express" (V. Van Gogh)
SAFE4NOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2013, 11:26 PM   #51
toedrag
DFWAC Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richardson
Posts: 532
Thanks: 154
Thanked 105 Times in 65 Posts
toedrag is on a distinguished road
Default

<Riot article link goes here>
__________________
"If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow." -Ross Bentley
toedrag is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to toedrag For This Useful Post:
X45 (07-14-2013)
Old 07-14-2013, 08:48 AM   #52
Fubar
Totally ***** Up
 
Fubar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 6,307
Thanks: 170
Thanked 604 Times in 402 Posts
Fubar is on a distinguished road
Default

YeAh! White people won! Where do I Si m prize?
__________________
I'm Just Say'n!!!
Fubar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 11:27 AM   #53
GBL1
DFWAC Member
 
GBL1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 233
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts
GBL1 is on a distinguished road
Default

Nevermind...Sorry. I REALLY should have checked that date. I saw it posted...as if it was a new event.

My mistake.

.
__________________
.

George

"Life is not a test drive. Drive fast, take chances."

.

.

Last edited by GBL1; 07-15-2013 at 02:44 PM.
GBL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 12:54 PM   #54
Vandit
DFWAC Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 15
Thanked 189 Times in 117 Posts
Vandit is on a distinguished road
Default

Sept. 18, 2012
__________________
Cooler than anti-freeze : Y'all pop the trunk, I pop the hood : I know it's white, but here comes the hawt sauce
My Flickr : My Photobucket w/ DFW auto event pics
Vandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 10:17 PM   #55
MarkDFW
DFWAC Senior Member
 
MarkDFW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 425
Thanks: 65
Thanked 45 Times in 30 Posts
MarkDFW is on a distinguished road
Default

Just saw this video and found it pretty interesting:

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/07/68300-whittle/
__________________
GTA Monte Carlo
MarkDFW is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MarkDFW For This Useful Post:
acj75 (07-26-2013), LonestarS5 (07-26-2013), SAFE4NOW (07-27-2013), toedrag (07-26-2013)
Old 07-26-2013, 10:59 PM   #56
trentor
heel. toe. shift.
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: McKinney
Posts: 2,432
Thanks: 109
Thanked 459 Times in 285 Posts
trentor is on a distinguished road
Default

Also interesting...

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/
__________________
http://www.BackRoadNomad.com
- Some off-road things
trentor is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to trentor For This Useful Post:
MarkDFW (07-26-2013), SAFE4NOW (07-27-2013)
Old 07-27-2013, 11:24 AM   #57
GTCole
Porsche CEO
 
GTCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,302
Thanks: 10
Thanked 164 Times in 86 Posts
GTCole is on a distinguished road
Default

It's amazing how the media is willing to ruin the life of someone in order to sell racism.

Edit: Just to be clear, I mean the life of Zimmerman. So much of the facts seem to be left out. It's all in the name of viewership to get more advertising dollars. Good luck Paula Dean.
__________________

2012 991 S Cab
2011 GT3 RS 4.0
2009 GT3 Cup
2012 Superduty
2012 Ecoboost

Last edited by GTCole; 07-27-2013 at 06:13 PM.
GTCole is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GTCole For This Useful Post:
Silentrun (07-27-2013)
Old 07-28-2013, 12:24 AM   #58
Odin@Earmark
DFWAC Sponsor
 
Odin@Earmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 349
Thanks: 54
Thanked 61 Times in 43 Posts
Odin@Earmark is on a distinguished road
Default

My simple plan (for civilians) to avoid being shot by strangers.

Don't start none, won't be none.

Worked for me for over 4 decades and counting.
__________________
Earmark Car Audio - Plano
972-612-6886
3132 W Parker Plano, TX 75075

If you think it's expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur.

http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Earma...89415821096005

Odin@Earmark is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Odin@Earmark For This Useful Post:
TomBoy (07-28-2013)
Old 07-28-2013, 09:28 PM   #59
CIWS
Moon Parasite
 
CIWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: D/FW
Posts: 3,135
Thanks: 516
Thanked 436 Times in 323 Posts
CIWS is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin@Earmark View Post
My simple plan (for civilians) to avoid being shot by strangers.

Don't start none, won't be none.

Worked for me for over 4 decades and counting.
Or even better, if you decide to get into a fight, keep it to the fists and punches. You start making blows like smashing a head against the concrete expect to get shot.
__________________


2015 335i MSport - MPPK, Borla ATAK exhaust, E.R. charge pipe.

2013 X1 35i Sport - 2009 X6 50i -2006 STS-V -2005 CTS-V
CIWS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 10:53 PM   #60
Silentrun
DFWAC Senior Member
 
Silentrun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Plano
Posts: 3,163
Thanks: 358
Thanked 187 Times in 121 Posts
Silentrun is on a distinguished road
Default

First thing instructors drill is to avoid trouble, that as a CHL you are held to a higher standard. No more fist-fights, angry driving, or showing any aggression...show of lethal force or application there of, only if you cannot reasonably escape. Lawyers will try and define the details for you if lethal force is used and every scenario is different.

Based on what I have heard, Zimmerman should have backed off that night. Having said that, once your head is being smashed against the concrete with no ability to flee, well then the math changes. But here the media also helped define the details in this case as well as the lawyers.

Personally I would have gone for involuntary man-slaughter only as Zimmerman did not leave his house that night with the intent to harm or kill. His actions could almost be construed to a drunk driver killing another on the roadway. Typically that is 6 years in Texas. (I know someone who was found guilty of vehicular manslaughter) Just my .02

As the prosecution did not find evidence to prove "beyond reasonable doubt." that is that. What the media and our "doj" does should also have criminal consequences...
__________________

2012 Cayman R-SOLD

______________
Past Rides:
2008 Cayman S
2008 C4S Modified
2009 997 TT Heavily Modified
2011 GT3 RS
2011 Carrera S
2012 Cayenne S Hybrid
Silentrun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.