Go Back   DFW Auto Club Forums > DFW Auto Club Lifestyle > DFWAC Shooting Range
DFWAC Shooting Range Guns, Sport and Personal Protection
Please support our sponsor: Boardwalk Ferrar - Maserati
Please support our sponsor: Earmark Car Audio

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2013, 11:07 PM   #1
7thz16
Bitter Clinger
 
7thz16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 204
Thanks: 62
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
7thz16 is on a distinguished road
Default ATF (NFA) Update (from Texas Law Shield)

Texas Law Shield, LLP Newsletter

ATF UPDATE September 11, 2013


Dear Members and Friends,
Recently the White House issued a press release regarding new executive actions by Barack Obama. One item of the press release spoke about NFA Trusts; it spoke of a so-called "loophole" that the President wishes to close. Major media outlets are reporting the topic in such a way as to imply that the executive orders are already effective, and that NFA Trusts now require you to jump over bureaucratic hurdles such as Chief Law Enforcement Officer sign-off, finger printing, and background checks. But is this really the case?
As you will see, currently the rule is only proposed; but it remains a very real threat on the horizon if we, the citizenry, do not do something about it. The public comment period is open, and this newsletter contains guidelines for drafting your comment, and instructions about how to get it into the ATF's hands.

In the meantime, for anyone who has been considering purchasing a suppressor, short barreled weapon, machine gun, or AOW, now may be the time to do it because there may not be a chance after December 8. Based on how the ATF has treated things in the past, it is possible that the ATF will process applications normally (though likely at a slower rate due to a sudden increase in demand). However, there is no definite answer as to what the ATF will choose to do regarding applications still being processed when the rule becomes effective. It is equally possible that they will be grandfathered in, or that they will be rejected on the grounds that they weren't submitted on a new form.

While we don't know how these in-between applicants will be treated, we do know what the ATF would require of new applicants should their rule become effective.

Proposed Rule
The ATF has proposed a new rule; it is not currently law, and it does not yet apply to everyone that has a trust. The new rule promotes a number of changes which would make the process of acquiring Class-III items (suppressors, short barreled weapons, machine guns, or AOW's) even more difficult.

Its first major change is the definition of what constitutes a "responsible person." It would include anyone in a trust, partnership, association, company (LLC), or corporation that possesses the power or authority to possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of the item. Put another way, anyone who could possess the item would be considered a responsible person; trustees, members of a company, or people with similar authority. By itself this change may appear innocuous, but combined with the other modifications it becomes a significant burden.

The second modification proposed by the ATF is to require all responsible persons to submit fingerprint cards and photographs, along with a law enforcement certificate. The fingerprint cards and photographs will be used for the purposes of conducting background checks, and identifying everyone involved in the trust, corporation, or other entity. Currently, there is no requirement to submit a list of every person able to possess the NFA item to the ATF, much less subject them all to fingerprinting and photographs.
The law enforcement certificate mentioned above will be changed from its current incarnation. Currently, only individuals need to pursue the certificate; trusts and corporations do not need such a certificate to successfully purchase Class-III items. This certificate currently has the Chief Law Enforcement Officer's ("CLEO") approval that the individual attempting to purchase the item is who they claim to be, and that the CLEO has no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm other than for lawful purposes. If the proposed regulation goes through, it will instead require the certification that the purchaser is who they claim to be, and that the CLEO has no information that possession of the Class-III item would be in violation of state or local law.

Considering how difficult it is to get a CLEO to even look at such forms, the change in what the CLEO has to certify is unhelpful at best. The fact that every responsible person has to have the CLEO sign off could be an administrative nightmare. For example, a family trust with multiple co-trustees living in different counties. Finally, considering that many CLEO's have been given orders not to sign such documents for political reasons, and there is no way to compel a CLEO to sign, it could effectively stop the purchase of Class-III weapons in their entirety in many cases.

Rule Making Process
Our chance to change things lies in the rulemaking process itself. Currently, the proposed rule has been published in the Federal Register. By publishing their Notice of Proposed Rulemaking ("NPR"), this gives advanced warning of the rule and starts the clock ticking on the 90 day comment period. This is your chance as an individual to make your voice heard.

The ATF must consider and address all significant issues raised by public comments and provide its reasoning regarding them. Well-articulated, non-emotional comments will have more sway than simple statements that the rule is bad without explaining why, or infuriated comments about gun control in general.

After the comment phase is over, the ATF will publish a final rule in the Federal Register. At least thirty days later, the regulation may become effective, subject to a limited few exceptions. At this point, it is handed off to the courts to determine whether the ATF adequately responded to the issues raised during the public comment phase, whether it provided a reasonable explanation of its decisions, followed procedures, and whether the final rule is arbitrary or capricious. If it was found lacking in any of these areas, the rule would be sent back to the ATF for revisions or further procedures.

The NPR was published September 9, 2013, and therefore the end of the comment period is December 8, 2013. It is very likely that at the end of the comment period, if all goes as planned, the rule will become effective. We encourage you to participate as much as possible between now and December 8.

Public Comment Guidelines
First and foremost, keep in mind that submissions will be posted with any personal information you provided; so be careful regarding what email address, phone number, or personal anecdotes you submit. Beyond that, to have as many fires cooking at once as possible, contact your local FFL dealers and manufacturers, and urge them to send in comments if they haven't already done so. Discuss your views with federal and state legislators and urge them to submit comments on how this impacts the individuals, FFL dealers, and manufacturers they represent. Local dealers should send in comments regarding how this will impact their small business.
Keep in mind that a well thought out, well-reasoned comment will gain more traction with the ATF than a single line comment or a hostile or emotion fueled remark. Try to focus not only on what the agency should or shouldn't do, but why. Supporting your views with properly formulated arguments or facts will make you an effective participant.

Use facts from real life; if you've been turned down by your CLEO as an individual trying to purchase a Class-III item, mention that in your comment. For those of you who hold a trust, contact your CLEO and ask if they would sign your NFA certificate. Ask them if they would sign a separate certificate for each of your co-trustees and how long that would take. If you have some other kind of unusual situation that the ATF may not have considered, use that too. For FFLs, small business, and local law enforcement include relevant data with your comment to the ATF. The ATF did not seek much input before creating their rule, so it could be that the less than favorable provisions were created out of simple ignorance, rather than malice.

Point out to the ATF that, should a CLEO simply decide to ignore your application, there is no functional way to compel his action. Additionally, should the CLEO decide to not sign your form on the belief that you are not who your fingerprints and photo claim you are, or that you would be in violation of state or local law by possessing the item, there is no appeal process regarding his decision. These are just a few of the articulable arguments that exist

Above all else, stay civil. While we all feel very strongly about our Second Amendment rights, name-calling, inappropriate language, and personal attacks will all do more harm than help.

How to Submit Comments
There are a number of rules that must be followed when submitting a comment. It must first identify the docket number as ATF 41P. You must also include the agency name, which is Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

There are three ways to submit your comments; mail, facsimile, or electronically. To submit your comment through the mail, it must be postmarked on or before December 8, 2013. It must be 12 point font size (or, if hand written, legible), and include your mailing address. It must also be signed. The comment should be addressed to:

Brenda Raffath Friend
Mailstop 6N-602
Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives U.S. Department of Justice
99 New York Ave. NE
Washington, D.C. 20002
ATTN: ATF 41P

For facsimile, comments can be faxed to (202) 648-9741. These letters must be in 12 point font (or, if hand written, legible), on 8.5 x 11 paper size, contain a legible written signature, and be no more than 5 pages long.

For electronic comments, click the following link (www.regulations.gov) and follow their instructions for submitting comments.

You may also request a hearing for public oral commenting. You must submit your written request within the 90 day comment period; keep in mind, though, that the Director has the right to determine whether a public hearing is necessary.

We hope this provides you with relevant information and insight.

Sincerely,

Texas Law Shield, L.L.P.
7thz16 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 7thz16 For This Useful Post:
CIWS (09-18-2013), FrgMstr (09-11-2013), MarkDFW (09-12-2013)
Old 09-12-2013, 02:51 PM   #2
MarkDFW
DFWAC Senior Member
 
MarkDFW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 425
Thanks: 65
Thanked 45 Times in 30 Posts
MarkDFW is on a distinguished road
Default

Would certainly be nice if someone created a template letter for us to use.

I'm curious if I set up a Trust now, before this goes in to effect, would I be able to buy NFA weapons after the new regs potentially kick in? Or are they saying the purchase of anything after these new regs would be outlawed? If the former, I'm tempted to pay the few hundred bucks and set up the Trust now.
__________________
GTA Monte Carlo
MarkDFW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 10:40 PM   #3
goofygrin
DFWAC Senior Member
 
goofygrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 720
Thanks: 3
Thanked 61 Times in 53 Posts
goofygrin is on a distinguished road
Default

It would be the latter...
__________________
Driving a Jeep now while the 930 appreciates.
goofygrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2013, 10:51 PM   #4
MarkDFW
DFWAC Senior Member
 
MarkDFW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 425
Thanks: 65
Thanked 45 Times in 30 Posts
MarkDFW is on a distinguished road
Default

Not worth bothering until we know what happens for me. I hope they don't try and make this retroactive and void every NFA trust already set up.

Gotta love how to government takes away rights one at a time. Of course, I don't suppose it matters that none of the recent massacres in the news involved NFA Trust weapons.
__________________
GTA Monte Carlo
MarkDFW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2013, 03:16 PM   #5
Fubar
Totally ***** Up
 
Fubar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 6,307
Thanks: 170
Thanked 604 Times in 402 Posts
Fubar is on a distinguished road
Default

I can't imagine a USA where the government would come to your house to take you guns away. What a tragic decade this has been for our country.
__________________
I'm Just Say'n!!!
Fubar is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fubar For This Useful Post:
TomBoy (11-01-2013)
Old 09-26-2013, 04:54 PM   #6
Captain Buddha
Track Addict
 
Captain Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grapevine
Posts: 837
Thanks: 230
Thanked 121 Times in 97 Posts
Captain Buddha is on a distinguished road
Default

I've had an NFA item since '96 or so (no trust, went the "traditional" route, got CLEO signoff, etc.). However, a few buddies and I just formed an NFA trust for mutually-beneficial items and got it all finalized and back to the lawyer a few weeks before the above...gotta see how this all plays out.
Captain Buddha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 11:32 AM   #7
7thz16
Bitter Clinger
 
7thz16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 204
Thanks: 62
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
7thz16 is on a distinguished road
Default

You may find this info useful:

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2013/1...goldman-2.html
7thz16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2013, 02:22 PM   #8
TomBoy
DFWAC Senior Member
 
TomBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 912
Thanks: 329
Thanked 88 Times in 67 Posts
TomBoy is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubar View Post
I can't imagine a USA where the government would come to your house to take you guns away. What a tragic decade this has been for our country.
Damn right!
TomBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 03:49 PM   #9
7thz16
Bitter Clinger
 
7thz16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 204
Thanks: 62
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
7thz16 is on a distinguished road
Default Texas Law Shield Update - ATF Final Action delayed

ATF has updated the status of their proposed rule dealing with NFA items (suppressors, short barrel firearms, etc.). For those unfamiliar with the proposed rule, in an effort to "close" the so-called "trust loophole" (which is no loophole at all) and to ensure that prohibited persons do not gain access to NFA Firearms, the ATF has issued Proposed Rule 41P that would require every "responsible person" to obtain Chief Law Enforcement Certification regardless of whether you purchase as an individual, under a trust or other corporate entity. For more information, please reference our newsletter which can be found here: http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...107868224.html

As stated previously, the ATF recently announced an update to the proposed rule; namely, that a final action should be taken some time in June of 2014. In the meantime, they will be reviewing the public comments that were submitted, including Texas Law Shield's own comment which can be found here: http://www.uslawshield.com/wp-conten...41PComment.pdf

Please keep in mind that this June date is a target date. A final act could happen earlier or later than June. Either way, any announced rule cannot become effective until at least 30 days after notice is given of the final rule.

Texas Law Shield will continue to monitor the ATF's actions to keep you updated. Please don't hesitate to call with any questions about setting up an NFA Trust before the final rule goes into effect.
7thz16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2014, 10:10 PM   #10
7thz16
Bitter Clinger
 
7thz16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 204
Thanks: 62
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
7thz16 is on a distinguished road
Default

Here's the latest update from Texas Law Shield:

ATF Moves Date For Proposed Rule
Dear Members and Friends,

For those who are worried about protecting their hearing from damage caused by shooting, great news! The ATF has moved the date for a new proposed rule that could affect your ability to own a suppressor, as well as a short barreled weapon, machine gun, or AOW.

As some may recall, in September of 2013 the ATF proposed a rule that would require all “responsible persons” to receive Chief Law Enforcement Officer authorization in order to purchase NFA regulated items. If enacted “as-is,” this rule could potentially put a halt to the purchase of all NFA regulated items (i.e., suppressors), for all practical purposes. After fierce opposition during the public commenting period (click here to read Texas Law Shield’s response to Proposed Rule 41p), the ATF set a target date of June 2014 to publish the final rule.

Texas Law Shield is glad to report that the ATF has pushed the final rule’s target publication date to January 2015. In the meantime, the law will continue to operate in the exact same fashion. Once the ATF publishes their final rule, it will come into effect at earliest 30 days from publication (or later, if the ATF chooses an effective date after that). Keep in mind, this is a target date; the rule could be published early, or they could continue to delay its publication. Texas Law Shield will keep its members informed of this situation and of any changes in the law that impact their firearm rights.
__________________
2012 C6 Centennial Edition Z06
2004 C5 Lemans Commemorative Edition, #7 of 2025 - Gone
1996 C4 Collector's Edition Convertible - Gone
7thz16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 01:55 PM   #11
XLR8
Astronaut
 
XLR8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Tollway
Posts: 157
Thanks: 8
Thanked 31 Times in 19 Posts
XLR8 is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the update. Better get moving on my Mk18 with surpressor
__________________
"No you don't understand. Engine is for going, brakes are for slowing."
XLR8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.